Talk: Gaius

Credit

Hi, this is Yume Hanabi, the original writer of Gaius's (and Wingul's) backstory posts. If you're just going to copy my posts and just change the wording a bit, I'd appreciate it if you gave credits to my blog. Thanks. Yume hanabi (talk) 11:48, August 27, 2013 (UTC)Yume Hanabi

UPDATE: I no longer need credit. Yume hanabi (talk) 22:29, November 6, 2013 (UTC)Yume hanabi

I didn't do this. But how would give credit? Relay the message to Commandant. Also nice to hear from you.

Signed, Winxfan1. I am the ultimate fan of Winx Club 13:10, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yume, I would appreciate if you didn't do your own one sided rant about your perception of what's going on here on your tumblr. First of all, yes credit should be given where it is due. We are trying to implement that as best as we can here, though that relies on the ability of other contributors to follow through with that intention. But I didn't think the info here was copied in the first place. If it is indeed copied mostly verbatim, then sure, the whole mess should be deleted as it was done without permission or acknowledgement. But if this info was arrived at by others who gained this kind of info on their own, or who at least used your works as an inspiration for what was written here, is that not unfair to say that it had belonged to your intellectual efforts alone? Certainly this cannot be confirmed without citation, and I cannot be the constant janitor that confirms what is copied from where, if I do not even know where to start looking for possible points that were copied from other places. If that is what you expect from me, then I'm obviously the one who is misguided and isn't guiding this place with enough of an iron fist. Mayhaps that's one of the issues that you have with this site: I'm not being strict enough. Let this be a lesson to other onlookers to cite the things you write.

And for the record, we -do- credit guides and such when it is relevant, and your sites have been cited plenty of times. Maybe you're turning a blind eye to that and are just using this one case to rant at us just because I didn't hawk on the page creator for his source and if the info is accurately "copied" as it is. But what I was saying on that other site where your information was posted is that efforts should be consolidated on one location to enhance the integrity of its articles, so that improvements can be made as needed in an efficient manner and with consistency with what exists elsewhere on the same site, and with corroborative data that is also relevant to readers such as our resource list content. The other site has copied stuff from us before, and I was there to stop that as soon as I noticed, due to Wikia's licensing rules. Now if we are being "hypocrites", it is an unintentional situation, and I am perfectly willing to nuke anything that you lay claim to if you are going to act the way you are acting among your inner circle of friends. I certainly didn't expect this kind of reaction from you, but perhaps we know now not to cross you, and the fact that we (or I) do not know that we are crossing you is no excuse to us. Apparently.

With that said, I will give you a chance to reply and indicate the content you wish to see deleted, if not the whole pages for Gaius and Wingul. I am at least courteous enough to let you state your side of the matter, even if that was denied to me. I just want to see if this attempt of mine at good will is seen as legitimate and genuine.

Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 13:41, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know it was about your past problems with Neoseeker. I just found it highly hypocritical that you were criticizing them for copying information from somewhere else (even though they got permission and cited the source) when I'd just seen that the same wasn't applied here, in this case.

I never claimed that it belonged to my "intellectual efforts" alone. But there is a difference between inspiration and simple rewording. All I wanted was some kind of acknowledgement. Hence why I left a quick message here. That's all I thought there would be to the matter and didn't even care much but then I saw your post on Neoseeker and it annoyed me. So I vented a bit on my personal Tumblr, but you seem to have misunderstood me. My problem wasn't with not getting credit, it was with your attitude on Neoseeker.

Hope that's cleared up now ^^

Yume hanabi (talk) 16:05, August 27, 2013 (UTC)Yume Hanabi

Yume, I did learn most of this from your info posts, and I referred to them occasionally as I wrote, but It was never my intention to copy things! I have no problems with those posts being added as sources if that is what you'd like, but I just want you to know it was never my intention to copy your work, and I apologize if I've offended you in some way. (I have no idea what other drama is going on here so I'd prefer we just move past that so these two pages can be restored!) --Commandant (talk) 16:52, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

As it has already been stated, Commandant was the one who created the pages and, according to him, "referred" to Yume's posts while he wrote them. After the pages were created, I did what I always do with new pages, and that is correcting grammatical errors and awkward wording. The few edits made to both pages before they were posted for deletion as a result of this are thanks to Winxfan, a problem user who won't leave this wiki alone. I suggest the pages be restored in their entirety, Winxfan's contributions omitted, and credit be given properly to Yuma. Granted, I haven't seen Yuma's posts, so I'm unsure of the validity of his or her claim. Regardless, Yuma has stated above that he or she simply wants acknowledgement. Hope this all clears.

Moviebaby (talk) 20:51, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Now that I have a chance to look at Yume's original posts, I am uncomfortable by how closely the content of the text was written to copy what she had posted. Citations should have been provided regardless, and Yume is right to complain, though the extent of the fingerpointing and putting words in my mouth is a frustration in itself. My attitude on the other site is the same as on any other place online, and my post there was a reaction to the idea that they need to "one up on Aselia Wiki" rather than contribute to a community effort, when they are known for just grabbing any info from wherever it can be found regardless of accuracy or quality. Anything that we discover here that is contributed with that similar mindset is removed as soon as we realize it, but we can't verify everything to be correct in all ways, as much as we try. I guess that isn't enough and we're not working hard enough, or something like that.

Hahaha she was right. I mean they even managed to introduce a couple of mistakes while rewording my posts *facepalm*
Part of the reason I decided not to contribute to the Xillia section a long time ago was because it was so full of mistakes I didn’t know where to begin…

Look Yume, I know there are a lot of errors on the pages that we have here. If no one makes the effort to change them, then they will stay there and continue to remain as errors. It's a vicious cycle of absolutely nothing, no? I am not going to know where these errors are since I have no intention to play Xillia, as I have no intention to buy a PS3 given the kind of third world country I am living in now. So it is up to the community's efforts to find and correct any mistakes, including those that were apparently introduced here when the text was reworded as you say. You, with your specialized knowledge on these topics, are the one who knows best what things should be changed. Otherwise we end up with the same kind of bullshit that Winxfan concocted when he made that article on Presa before, and still continues to try to repost no matter what we try to do, on -every- page.

Complaining about how wrong our content is does nothing about fixing it. Instead it just lets you and others treat it as a worthless resource while actively working to make sure it stays that way. Anything that we have which was copied without permission should be purged, sure, but other honest contributions should be edited as every user has a right to do so. That is why a singular wiki resource is needed, so all efforts can be directed toward clearing away the garbage that exists and make this place at least passable, instead of diverting efforts into a separate entity and then complaining about us for not being able to accomplish what we are trying to uphold. Or would it just be easier for us to purge all Xillia-related content and start from scratch? Believe me, I have to do this -all the time- whenever there are contributions on the topics that I actually do know about with thorough detail. And I hate it, but that's the life I have here on Aselia because few others have the resolve to do it themselves.

For reference, the blog posts giving info on Gaius and Wingul are here:

http://taleslations.livejournal.com/31417.html#cutid1

http://taleslations.livejournal.com/31499.html#cutid1

Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 22:14, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

@Commandant: No, no, it's nothing, you haven't offended me at all. I don't care if people use my stuff, as long as I'm notified or some sort of sourcing is added when I ask for it ^^

Let's forget this happened and restore the pages.

Yume hanabi (talk) 10:41, August 28, 2013 (UTC)Yume Hanabi

The damage is already done and won't be forgotten, at least by your followers who see only one side of the issue. For me, I guess it's just the latest of dozens of frustrations to deal with, so I really don't care anymore as long as the issue gets resolved. It is just an unhappy coincidence that someone just happened to make these articles on Gaius and Wingul, a mere few hours after I had posted what I did on that other site and without me noticing that the content was brought to our side... not to mention that the reason I checked that place at all on that day was to check if they were involved in the latest vandalism spree worth 260 edits of page blankings over the span of three hours, since they certainly are suspects in the matter. That was the viewpoint from which I made my post on that site. It's pointless to speculate what this situation would have been like had these two articles not been posted here, since my interaction with that site at that time was to repeat my past warnings against copying content. I didn't think someone would position Aselia as a perpetrator in that very sense, but it only goes to show that things are just too lax around here, in spite of how various new users try to claim that it is the opposite.

But whatevs. Make your changes to our content to bring it more in line with what is accurate if you wish. If not, I will have to rely on someone else (always excluding Winxfan) to abridge the pre-game information further and focus instead on providing more tangible content from the games themselves, which hopefully should not require them to use your works as a base for awkward synonym replacements and whatnot.

Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 12:39, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

I've asked my followers to forget about it. Hope that'll be enough... At least the responses so far seem positive ^^

Yeah, it was an unfortunate combination of timings. Also didn't help that the debate was spread on three different places (Tales Forum, when will you be back? ;_;).

I'll try to if I have time, at least for Xillia. I'm not really comfortable with Wiki editing though...

Yume hanabi (talk) 13:32, August 28, 2013 (UTC)Yume Hanabi

If it helps, Yume, I'd be happy to fix any errors for you if you relay the information to me! (My tumblr is aujoule if you'd rather message me there.) I'm glad we could clear this situation up, and would love it if you could continue to help us improve the wiki. --Commandant (talk) 14:42, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Which story in "Cannon"

At the temporal crossroads, Do Jude and Milla Fight Gaius, or Muzet? Ludger 14:51, May 11, 2014 (UTC)

They're both canon, it just depends on the path you're on. Yume hanabi (talk) 23:21, May 11, 2014 (UTC)

But if someone were to edit the Tales of Xillia pages, what would the storyline part say for Gaius, Muzet, Milla, and Jude? Ludger 18:26, May 12, 2014 (UTC)