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Official romanizations

If someone has the time, can he or she provide a list, save character names, of official romanizations for terminology in this game? The script I'm using conflicts with many of the variations I've notice (not surprisingly), so it would really be helpful. I can also add whatever list is created to the Terminology page to use as future reference. Thanks!

Arosia (talk) 00:19, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

I think the location names are already spelled in English letters in the game. Character names are spelled out on the main website, hence "Asras" even if it makes more sense as Asura for the Hindu reference (along with Vritra) and because that is what is actually pronounced. For anything else, the best thing might be to go with Kouli's guide for most translations. Kouli is a native Japanese guy who interacts a lot with the English community. Throughhim changes a lot of terms and even character names to his own preference in the patch, and I don't know the full extent of these changes, but most guides that you will see online might be based on the patch instead.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 00:45, August 5, 2015 (UTC)

Yikes. Okay, I need help.

  • I know we use "Ruca" over "Luca" and "Illia" over "Iria".
  • I also know we use "Asras" over "Asura" and "Vritra" over "Vrtra".
  • It's "Thitose" over "Chitose", right? What about her past self? "Sakura" or "Sakuya"?
  • Is it "Gaebolg" combined or "Gae Bolg" separated?
  • I'm assuming it's "Vulcan" over "Balkan"?
  • The worlds are "Devaloka" and "Naraka", yes?
  • The countries are "Regnum", "Ashihara", "Garam", "Galpos", and "Tenos", yes?
  • The spellings "Census" and "Latio" are used over "Sensus" and "Ratio", yes?
  • The term "Manifest" is used instead of "Genesis", yes?
  • The antagonistic group is "Arca", not "Arka", right?
  • Is "Avatar(s)" capitalized, and is this the correct term?

Arosia (talk) 00:17, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

  • Yes. Both names were localized in Graces PS3.
  • Yes.
  • Thitose is used on the official site, meaning we use this. Chitose is used by Throughhim since her name is actually pronounced this way. "Sakura" was a mistake on my part when I made the template (because of recent Nasuverse stuffs that I had been involved with), so it should be Sakuya.
  • The traditional spelling of the legendary weapon is Gáe Bulg, though I've always been inclined to write it as "Gae Bolg", which is an accepted spelling (and also because Nasuverse). It may be acceptable without the space, but it looks awkward to me. But it's your option.
  • Vulcan refers to the Greek god, alongside Thanatos, so yes. It doesn't refer to the European region itself.
  • The world and its "heaven" are unnamed. Throughhim invented those terms based on Hindu terminology. It would be equivalent to spontaneously deciding to call the two realms Asgard and Midgard, despite there being no actual names given. I would prefer to avoid invented terms from any source, meaning they should be simply "the world" (世界 sekai?) and "heaven" (天上界 tenjoukai?).
  • Yes.
  • JP: (センサス Sensasu?) and (ラティオ Ratio?). Everyone has different interpretations of the spelling, myself included. I always read them as "Senses" (less engrish) and "Latio" (yes, because of Pokemon). I don't think there was any preference by the English community prior to Throughhim's patch, which obviously now causes people to lean toward the names he chose to use. Your option.
  • JP: (創世力 souseika?, lit. "power of creation/genesis"). Anything works here since nothing official exists, although I would rather just have it written in phrase form and not as a term that stands out since I don't like to invent terminology.
  • JP: (アルカ教団 Aruka Kyoudan?, lit. "Alca Religious Society"). I always read it as "Alca" when I played the game, so any other spelling looks weird to me. Any spelling could be used, though "Arka" could be confused with Xillia's Ark Noah/Exodus. I don't know what Throughhim uses. Your option.
  • JP: (異能者 inousha?, lit. "unknown ability person") and (転生者 tenseisha?, lit. "reincarnated person"). "Avatar" is an invented term by Throughhim. Wings of an Angel Scanlations chose to use "Inousha" and "Tenseisha" directly in their translations of the Innocence manga. Again, I prefer to avoid invented terms, so I'd rather see it written out like "people who have strange/unique/unknown powers/abilities" and "people who are reincarnated from deities", rephrased as needed to suit the narrative, rather than as terms that stand out and require further definition. I do agree with Throughhim that it is poor form to use actual Japanese words to refer to these things in something that is supposed to be a translation, though I disagree when this mentality is applied to actual names like Kohaku and Hisui (because Nasuverse!).
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 05:10, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanations. My only concern with not having translated terminology is that it makes it difficult to create pages for these things. I actually have the official guide on its way, so I'll be sure to check it closely for any romanizations. Otherwise, I suppose I'll go based on your thoughts and, if all else fails, what the community would best recognize, though I'm assuming these terms would be Throughhim's inventions. We use his translations for artes. Should we bend this for instances such as these as well? It's not a huge deal since redirects will handle any ambiguities, but I would prefer to be consistent. Part of me wants to lean toward Throughhim's invented terminology for the sake of clarity and community familiarity, but I can see that you're hesitant to accept that. Like I said though, it's really not that big of a deal, so no worries either way.

Also, your thoughts on TV Tropes portraits, implementing them into tables, and the possibility of replacing the gallery template with tables so that line breaks and scroll bars won't be a problem?

Arosia (talk) 05:37, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

I know what you mean about the pages for each topic that does not have a proper English name. I kinda regret establishing "Er'ther Lands" as a term despite there also being no true name for the world of Destiny, but the user who created the page called the world "Earth", which is silly... although the original JP name for the Aether Wars is indeed the "War of Heaven and Earth". Along the same lines, I would rather not go with fan translations as a basis for term usage because these terms did not exist within the actual game, or they were "interpreted" into what would be used as terms following the concept of "localizing" the game (liberally) rather than merely translating it. I mentioned before that I disagree strongly with a lot of Throughhim's translation conventions (except for things like Thunder Claw and Autumn Sandstorm which I do support because the real localized names are awful), and while this has been argued to death on the old forums, it would be in bad taste for me to bring up all of those arguments here.
On the arte pages, we only recognize the translations used by various fan translation groups. We don't use those names as page titles or show them alongside the list of localized arte names, neither on the indiv. arte pages nor on the list-type pages, precisely because they are created by fans. We only acknowledge the existence of these translations for archival purposes, but we don't treat them as official in any sense. I would prefer to have any untranslated terms follow the same concept, since any use of the terms used by fan translations would be seen almost like an endorsement of those translations, which in turn prompts people to use all of the terms invented by them everywhere while overriding everything that is indeed localized by Namdai NA or otherwise exists with an official spelling from Namdai JP. Basically it becomes internal consistency vs. overall consistency. Ultimately, it shouldn't matter either way, but this is just my stand on the issue. You can choose whatever would be most effective for these pages.
As for the TVTropes stuff, I wanted to take a hands-off approach to that. I personally disagree with using these images because they are heavily manipulated and do not have a discernible citation chain back to a primary source. They look like forum avatars and may actually have originated from Livejournal RP groups. I guess you were able to talk to the TVTropes people about it though, so it's up to you if you like the images enough to maintain them. As for layout stuff, it would be workable to have table images instead of the existing gallery template. I don't know about putting all of the char images right in the middle of the articles though. A single group shot, like the official cover art for a given game sans the logos and emblems, should be enough to provide a visual aid for the chars in the game.
Audrey Belrose is my spirit animal. (talk) 06:53, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'll use my best judgment then, as well as add the appropriate usage to the Terminology page. When I started the TV Tropes stuff, I knew immediately that you wouldn't like it lol. I really don't find them too heavily manipulated, and all of them are cropped versions of existing official artwork, status images, and cut-ins. Some are a bit zoomed-in, but the ones I created aren't. On their website, many of their Tales character pages simply use somewhat-sloppy cropped images of official artwork, but on some, they use the portrait style you see with the ones I uploaded. These are ideal for dimensional consistency in table-making.

I've varied the use among official artwork, status images, and cut-ins, just as they did. I think they're cute and don't mind creating more of them. I actually didn't speak with anyone at TV Tropes. I took those images and simply attributed them due to the site's Creative Commons license. Even if they did have some sort of copyright protection on manipulation of Bamco's artwork, it wouldn't be difficult to do exactly as I've been doing with my creations, which is cropping existing images for the sake of dimensional consistency and cuteness. I had actually planned on telling them that they are free to use my creations to fill in the gaps on their own wiki for the character pages lacking the portrait style, if they want to be consistent. I also considered doing it myself, but effort and stuff on this wiki to do. But anyway, layout. I do like the idea of tables instead of the gallery template simply because it's become tedious dealing with the four-per-line limit and constant scroll bars (not sure if it's a bug or not).

So far, I've only implemented it for the portal-esque organization pages that compile information on a group of characters since the description is their name, simply serving as identification. With the somewhat large and bolded text the table provides, it wouldn't be ideal for typical images with descriptions. I'm sure there's a way to work around this, however. We could play around with it. Also, it may be difficult to adjust image sizes if the images themselves aren't as dimensionally consistent as, for example, the TV Tropes portrait images. But anyway, just some thoughts. I can't believe you don't like the character image tables on the game pages~! I think they're cute and add some pizzazz to the page. But really, the group shots are okay, but they don't stand out and identify the characters. I feel the characters are a core to each game, so in my mind, a heightened representation of them is harmless. Just my opinion, though!

Arosia (talk) 07:45, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Okay, so I'm not sure what else to do. To properly create and write these pages, it would be ideal to have established terminology, but I understand that you're not a fan of it. I've referred to this page and concluded the following:

  • All names listed here are correct. Note that this includes "Gae Bolg" separated.
  • "Devaloka" and "Naraka" for heaven and earth, respectively, since I don't know what else to do. Also since I think it's best in this case to use what the community is most familiar with.
  • "Sensus" and "Ratio" for the armies. Same as above.
  • "Manifest" for the power of creation. Same as above.
  • "Arca" for the organization. Same as above.
  • "Fallen/Fallen One" and "Avatar(s)" for people with special abilities and reincarnations, respectively.
  • "Gods" and "Humans" instead of "Devas" and "Naras". This change was unnecessary on his part.
  • "Remlace" instead of "Lemures". The game has it romanized this way.
  • "Naohs" instead of "Naos". Again, official romanization and actually looks better.

Arosia (talk) 02:49, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Ending

Okay so, it was somewhat anticlimactic. I also feel as if many things were left unexplained in an already-difficult-to-follow plot. I like the game a lot though, especially the battle system, but fuck grinding. Maybe it was just the script I was using, but I'll try my best in writing the articles. Will probably be working on that while I play through ToH. Also, random question. How were they able to use the Manifest at the end? I thought a loved one had to be sacrificed first. Perhaps I'm missing something. Anyway, good game.

Arosia (talk) 02:48, August 14, 2015 (UTC)

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