This game has a plethora of various enemies. I think it would be cool if we could detail them and stuff. I'm in the second half so I'm not sure if I'd miss out on a lot of the earlier enemies. I think the Gentleman is the creepiest and coolest one though. Tyciol 05:22, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
- Gentlemen aren't a staple of Legendia alone. They have been part of the series since Symphonia, and they have appeared as major cameo characters in Destiny's PS2 remake (everything from Chloe's Hat to the KOS-MOS parody). Legendia is one of their least important appearances (probably THE least important), only notable at all because they require a special throw from Senel's compound eres.
- Ideally, I would like to avoid enemy pages entirely so more focus can be put into adding more detail to our existing pages. The only enemies that require pages should be only the major boss characters, and the recurring important enemies like the Sword Dancer. Everything else is rather unimportant, and it just clutters our wiki to have so many useless pages with little to no helpful information... specifically those pages that amount to two or three token sentences that state the obvious. There isn't a lot to say about the common rabble. Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 05:37, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
- If these are recurring enemies that appear in multiple titles then wouldn't that make it even more important to have an article which identifies their different appearances, statistics, etc. ? Unifying aspects to company's products are very good culture. It's like how the Disgaea-related things have Prinnies. I understand the importance of identifying bosses and main characters, but monsters and items are important too. Why should we worried about 'cluttering' the wiki? There's no space limitations. Why not extensively describe as much as we possibly can so people can find any information they want?
- The Tales series has "standard" enemies like Killer Bees and Starfish too. What importance do they have? While it's good to have a broad range of info, we do not have the staff and resources to create this many pages, most of which would have almost nothing worth saying. This is why I want to keep the focus of this wiki on two specific spheres: list articles (arte/skill/title/item lists taken directly from the source games), and content articles (pages that describe all important characters/locations/terms, and naturally the games themselves). As you can see throughout this wiki, there are a great many pages that lack any decent depth of information (see Chelsea Torn), and if we were to add individual pages for each and every monster that exists, totaling around 500~1000 generic creatures in the entire series even if you don't include all those recolored sprites/models, then not only would our attention be stretched that much more, the existing articles will continue to stay the way they are while people focus on these new pages instead.
- Also, stat data is reserved for monster lists only, see ToS - Monster Book for an example of that. I do not want information spread out across multiple pages if it can be accessed in bulk with sortable capabilities to save space and time. This is a small wiki site dedicated to a very niche series of games, most of which will never appear outside of Japan, and with our very small collection of frequent (and even infrequent!) contributors, we cannot afford to divide our attention to make the wiki that much larger and more unmanageable. I'd rather keep this wiki primarily as a translation and reference resource with our list pages, and I take pride in the fact that our wiki is the only source of info anywhere in the English-speaking world for Tempest, ToEO, and the Mobile games (and Graces too, until someone uploads a more complete guide on another site, launching a new wave of people complaining about our site's lack of info while not helping to remedy that issue, since they don't realize that we are obviously preoccupied with other things!), but clearly people expect so much more from a wiki, and it's impossible to meet all expectations when we have our priorities to work with.
- Perhaps, five or ten years from now, when this wiki is in a more complete state (ahahaha not likely, with the current rate of new Tales games per year), we may begin to divert our attention into other fields, since the existing pages might finally be at a far more presentable state than they are now. Maybe. Possibly. I hope. Until then, we shouldn't worry about adding more to our work load. Any new projects can come when we're ready and willing, and when we have the staff to accomodate such efforts. If previous years are any indication, both are impossible any time in the near future. Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 03:36, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
I think having articles for major enemies like this would be valuable. What resources are needed? Just start out with a list, and stuff worth saying, we could have a picture, any special attacks or attributes (from scanning them) and maybe their damage and life. +y 04:08, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
- You seem to have glossed over exactly -why- I say this is not a project we will not work on within the next decade or beyond, and I shouldn't have to repeat myself for the n-th time. We do not need -more- pages that count among our endless number of useless stubs. If all the info that is available is stat-related, which includes, as you say, "attributes/damage/life" plus other parameters that can be obtained "from scanning them", then put it in a list-type resource page organized as a table with sortable columns. I even linked you to an example of one such page in this very discussion literally two years ago. Any "special attacks", supposing you are referring to artes, are out of the question at this moment in time for any game that is not DotNW. Pictures are likewise out of the question, since they will distort table formatting on list-type pages. And if you create pages just for this sort of info which is better displayed on a list-type page... guess what, you created another useless stub that we don't need instead of fleshing out existing stubs, adding one (or many) pointless articles to clutter this wiki instead of clearing away one (or many) of those existing pointless articles by turning it into anything but!
- I had to delete another handful of these kinds of pages just a few weeks ago because that user did not realize that list-type pages are not only more efficient when designed consistently with the rest of this wiki's pages, but that the pages that user did create were filled with so much whitespace and little descriptive content that the pages may as well not exist. And indeed, I returned them to that proper state of inexistence for that reason, after again stating the very same why's I seem to keep regurgitating to everyone who lets these ideas get in the way of progressing with the enhancement of our existing content.
- No monster pages. Review our priorities and please follow through with them, instead of proposing projects like this which waste time and effort which could have been used to get through our priorities, which would -then- allow us to get to your proposed project once everything else is done maaaaybe 10 years from now (hahahahaha no Namdai will never let things be completed that quickly(!) or easily(!!) when they announce new games the week -before- the latest big thing is released).
Since she appears so frequently throughout the game and is an asset to the heroes and even someone you actually fight (very difficult 1 on 1 match, it took me a couple tries with Senel, unfortunately you can't fight her a second time) we could perhaps have an article for her right? Tyciol 02:18, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I guess you could have a separate article for her, sure, but her role is so closely related to the Wonder Chef that they could just as reasonably be grouped together. If someone manages to create an article that is relatively fleshed out, detailing her interactions with the party and whatever amounts to her backstory, then I don't see why she wouldn't deserve her own page. But if all that can be added is mere fluff and filler, then it will be merged with Wonder Chef.
- Of course, someone has to make that article. Do we have anyone willing to do that? If anyone is out there to actually answer for once, might I direct you to also flesh out Chelsea's article linked above? And perhaps the dozens of stubbed articles for the characters in Tales of Hearts while you're at it.
- Only those who have actually played the game or read a script or something can help with characters from unlocalized games. I'm sure there are people here who have played ToL but simply won't answer here. Others simply haven't played the games and thus can't do anything and won't answer.
- Me, I only have the games that have been released in Europe, my PSP broke down, my Xbox memory card is gone, and ToP has I put on a long-term hiatus, so I don't really know how to help with these articles. And those who could go into Japanese sites to make lists for games they don't know about might not understand Japanese. Penamesolen 06:25, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
- And therein lies the fundamental flaw of this wiki. If someone happens to understand the content and dialogue of a Japanese game, then that person would rather share this knowledge on another site where he or she could receive full credit for the work, rather than post that same info here to augment what we might already have, on a site where that work can and will be edited by anyone. Then the inevitable comparisons begin, and because of the feel of incompletion that this site has with the pages that already exist, and the red links that show what doesn't exist, people are even less interested to help out.
- Those of us who are active, we try to make things better as quickly and throroughly as we can, but if the more knowledgeable won't help us, then things won't change much. And then when the next game comes, we try to get the info onto this site as soon as possible, but the endless cycle continues no matter what we do. Side-projects could end up being helpful if enough time and effort is spent on them, but the same time and effort could just as easily be diverted into making content pages better, thus improving the quality of the existing articles and making it less likely for people to badmouth the wiki behind our back (or directly in our/my face, often enough). Of course, complaining about these things isn't doing us any good either, but that's what I'm known for.
- Besides, there are plenty of content pages for localized games that need to be fleshed out. I mean, we don't even have a page for Hugo Gilchrist, the primary antagonist of Destiny's "part 2" and practically the very template for Van's character: a sadistic, manipulative shota-pedo with a goatee and a god complex. And what about Balir or Vaclav or Cumore? All fairly important characters in localized games. But hey, my priorities align with the list pages that are just as forlorn and forgotten, and I know others have their own priorities too. So let's not add new priorities.
- (Ignoring that entire tangent, a page for Mimmy Bread/Mimi Baker is still a good idea.) Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 09:34, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking of starting that page on Vaclav but is he the main antagonist of the main game or does that belong to Muarits or Nerifes? As a side note could someone upload a picture of him as I'm still having trouble with that. User:Nathbud789 11:26, Febuary 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ask and ye shall receive.. But first off. I have not played Tales of Legendia so I could be incorrect. But is this him?? Sanatosu 16:36, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
- @Nathbud - He is as much of an antagonist as both of the others. The "primary antagonist" category is for all major enemies that have an impact on the plot, and Vaclav was the main villan of a full third of the entire game, similar to Hugo and Alexei. Vaclav, Walter, Maurits, Nerifes, and Schwartz are all "primary antagonists", while Cashel, Stingle, Melanie, Solon, and others I don't remember are "minor antagonists".
- @Sanatosu - Yes. Don't direct-link to images outside of this wiki. Byakuren Hijiri (talk) 16:37, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ah. My aplogies. e__e I'm still not very familiar with some of the coding here. But atleast I know it now. Bwahahah... ahh... Sanatosu 16:41, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
Making note that the "Story" section of this page was taken from Wikipedia and revised slightly to adhere to this wiki's standards.